We´ve been reading the original DMG - the ultimate DM book! - but from a B/X and OSR point-of-view.
Check the other parts of this series here.
Today we discuss:
— ADVENTURES IN THE OUTDOORS 47
— ADVENTURES IN THE AIR 49
— AERIAL TRAVEL 49
— AERIAL COMBAT 50
— WATERBORNE ADVENTURES53
— UNDERWATER ADVENTURES 55
— Underwater Spell Use 57
— TRAVEL IN THE KNOWN PLANES OF EXISTENCE 57
— OUTDOOR MOVEMENT 58
— INFRAVISION & ULTRAVISION 59
— INVISIBILITY 59
— MIRRORS 60
— DETECTION OF EVIL AND/OR GOOD 60
— LISTENING AT DOORS 60
As you can see, this section is about two vaguely related topics: traveling to different places that are not cities or dungeons (through earth, air, water, and different planes of existence) and noticing things (noises, light, darkness, good and evil, invisible).
ADVENTURES IN THE OUTDOORS
It is necessary to have a reasonably well-detailed, large scale map for conducting
adventures outdoors. Naturally, the initial adventuring in the campaign will be
those in the small community and nearby underground maze. For whatever
reason — player desire, quest or geas, or because of your own direction —
adventuring will sooner or later move to the outdoors.
So we get some good advice right away: start your campaign with a small village and a nearby dungeon. The proceed to the larger setting (your own or something published). The setting should be divided in hexes and smaller subhexes (I prefer pointcrawls nowadays, butt here is a reason for hexes here, as we'll see).
LAND ADVENTURES
Here the author describes chances and frequencies of encounters (according to terrain and population density) with detail. This is useful, it somewhat crunchy - especially considering the author suggested we occasionally ignore random encounters.
Encounter Distance is also described with interesting detail - distances are smaller if one size is surprised. The rules on confrontation clarify some questions I had with B/X:
Confrontation indicates that the adventurers and some
monster have met at close proximity, and some interaction is likely to take
place. There are, however, modifying circumstances:
1) If the monsters are intelligent and would normally deem themselves to be
weaker than the party of adventurers, then they will always seek to avoid
such confrontation.
2) If the party of adventurers surprises the monsters and elects to flee the
encounter, they may attempt to avoid confrontation by using free segments
of action to move out of confrontation distance and evade the monsters.
Movement for parties of more than 100 creatures are detailed here.
Then we have rules for becoming lost. They only apply with a lot of caveats: "Any party not guided by a creature knowledgeable of the countryside through which the party is moving, or which is not following a well defined course (river, road, or the like), or which is not using a well-drawn and correct map, might become lost.". IF they apply, they are incredibly harsh: in a forest or marsh, there is a decent chance you'll simply starting walking backwards, 180º degrees.
"Procedures are only for exploration of unmapped terrain." This is why we use hexes rather than pointcrawls (also because they did not exist by this name at the time).
Forced movement is possible, but requires rest to avoid exhaustion (i.e., temporary loss of levels) and sudden death. These rules are comparatively simple and elegant (I'd prefer Constitution loss, but this has the advantage of hindering spellcasters equally).
ADVENTURES IN THE AIR
This section includes flying brooms, carpets, and creatures. Training a flying mount requires money and time.
AERIAL COMBAT
Another incredibly detailed section about something I'm very unlikely to use, including a whole page on how different creatures fight when flying and hex-maps of flying maneuvers ("A running record of absolute (or relative) altitude should be kept, either on a separate sheet or on a small piece of paper under each figure or counter").
If I had to pick some rule from here, I like the idea that winged creatures cannot fly at less than half HP since their wings are probably hurt.
Other than that, I'll just skip it.
WATERBORNE ADVENTURES
This section details virus types of boats, ships, galleys, etc. A nautical campaign is much more likely for me than an aerial one, so this definitely looks interesting. It has rules on navigation, combat, damaging ships, swimming in armor, naval terminology, and so on. Lots to learn in here even if you don't include it in your games!
UNDERWATER ADVENTURES
Traveling underwater the water is even rarer than travelling on air. This section has rules for breathing, fighting, moving, seeing, and casting spells underwater. I'll just skip it again, since I don't think I'll ever use it. I do enjoy the facts that these rare circumstances are described here rather than in combat or spell sections, so you can just ignore them if you want.
TRAVEL IN THE KNOWN PLANES OF EXISTENCE contains some vague ideas about the planes, further detailed in the PHB.
OUTDOOR MOVEMENT details travelling speed on foot, mounts, boats, etc. Pretty straightforward.
INFRAVISION & ULTRAVISION details and somewhat limits these special senses, making infravision somewhat less powerful than simply seeing in the dark. "Light sources which give off heat also absolutely prevent normal infravision from functioning within their sphere of illumination".
INVISIBILITY, similarly, nerfs invisibility powers. "Monsters might well be able to hear, smell, or see the invisible character.". This is funny and sensible: "Now consider a silence spell and large area invisibility cast upon a party. Imagine the chaos within the area as characters stub their toes on the heels of the person before them, with the inability to hear anything so that falls, suggestions as to what should be done, or orders cannot be heard. Consider also that dust on the floor will betray most invisibility, as will dust or powder in the air.". In addition, creatures of sufficient HD and intelligence have a probability of detecting invisibility through keen hearing/smell etc. I'm conflicted about this rule; could be fun, but why not allow dogs and cats to have a chance?
MIRRORS - "It is important for DMs to remember that in order to be reflective, a mirror must
have a light source." This is the entirety of the entry.
DETECTION OF EVIL AND/OR GOOD has detailed rules about detecting evil/good that should be included under the appropriate spells or power - or at least under alignment.
LISTENING AT DOORS has rules on exactly that... including details on races and even the chances of a character finding out to be "keen eared" the first time he tries it! Should be a part of character creation and is included here for no particular reason. The DMG is like that, full of fun little ideas that come from out of nowhere, as if the author was making it up as he goes.
When compared to B/X, AD&D gives 10%-15% chances of hearing rather than 16%-33% for most PCs. It also explicitly allows three PCs to try at once, and three attempts to be made, so the odds are in the PC's favor. It is a simple system and not particularly clever IMO (I might give a bonus proportional to the time being spent, maybe). However, I'm fond of the idea of using a d20 here (while many B/X fans prefer 1-in-6), and "three attempts" soudns good enough to me too.
What have we learned today?
There is not much here for my B/X games, except some clarifications and rulings on how to nerf certain powers. The part on encounter distance is useful. This is not a particular inspiring entry to the series... But what we've got next will certainly be fun!
Additional reading (on encounters)
https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2023/05/reaction-rolls-in-practice-osr.html
Coming next... COMBAT!
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ReplyDelete"There is not much here for my B/X games, except some clarifications and rulings on how to nerf certain powers."
You crazy! The sections on different adventure types (aerial, waterborne, underwater, among the planes) I found amazing, real imagination firing stuff. Perfect for a B/X game? Maybe not, but definitely a good starting point on the considerations for those types of adventures.
Notes on part 1:
Adventures in the Outdoors - "naturally, the initial adventuring in the campaign will be those in the small community and nearby underground maze". Same progression as Basic to Expert. Also I like the note about inserting your own initial dungeon adventures into a location in an existing setting, and only building your own setting if you have time and/or inclination.
Chance of Encounter - varying encounter frequency by proximity to civilization is a sensible system. Looks like the system doesn't vary encounter chance (per roll) by terrain type ala B/X but does vary the number of times encounters are checked per day (similar effect in the end). Interestingly, the relative frequency of encounters by terrain is slightly rearranged compared to B/X - forest encounter frequency is very high, while deserts and mountains are low. I think the AD&D system is a bit more naturalistic, though I don't love the complexity of adjusting the encounter distance.
Movement - nice little system for larger groups (over 100) moving slower. Good for army movement.
Getting lost - No mention of using tall visible landmarks to not get lost, but I suppose you can just include that yourself. The bit about fixing erroneous player maps after figuring out you're lost sounds painful, but I'm not sure what else you'd do for getting lost if your players are mapping.
Surprisingly, I don't see anything about foraging/hunting/finding water in this section but maybe it's covered elsewhere. Seems like a key consideration.
Heehhe, as I mentioned, I don't run many aerial/underwater campaigns. Other than that, I like it. I agree with many of your points here, great stuff.
DeleteSure, neither have I, though after reading this section I'd love to! Seems like one of those things you put on a map - a coastline with some islands some miles off shore or a giant deep lake - and then figure out when your players have the levels and resources to get there (ships, crews, water breathing spells etc
DeletePart 2
ReplyDeleteAdventures in the Air
Flying mounts - Griffons need to be fed a horse every once in a while, and they'll run you 300-600 gp per month. So much cooler than a broom of flying though.
Aerial combat - just looking at the page you know it's gonna have some wild amount of detail. There's an interesting Dragonsfoot thread on reading the DMG - some comments on how the aerial combat was likely inspired by a TSR game called Fight in the Skies aka Dawn Patrol. This system is actually pretty complete compared to the waterborne section which I find a bit lacking.
Levitation - taking into account levitation instability making archery (and other combat activities) difficult is a nice thought but the system is unintuitive. I don't understand the cumulative penalty system - why does it get harder to shoot each round when hovering or flying, but then reset? Perhaps it's to encourage the "hit and run affair" that Gygax describes aerial combat as?
Conducting Combat - can you attempt to melee while riding a flying mount? Or while using the fly spell? The aerial combat section I find actually pretty decent but it lacks a solid procedure to conduct it. Though the focus on procedures is a bit of a modern trend I think.
Waterborne adventures
Gygax knows a thing or two about boat types! Or at least, so it appears (if the armor types are an indicator some of this might be a bit loose…)
Waterborne adventures continued - I'm surprised that, for all the maneuverability and movement detail that the aerial adventures section gets, there's nothing about using sails to tack upwind. There's a wind direction table, but it seems to be left to the reader to figure out what wind direction does exactly. Edit - wind direction shows up on pg 58 as a 10%-30% factor to add or subtract to sailing speed.
Wind direction and force - using d8 to determine direction, when so much D&D outdoor adventure is by hex map seems strange. Storm damage is nice and scary but having a random storm sink your ship and TPK would be a pretty bitter pill to hand you players.
Burn damage of Controlled Fires - it appears that this section is trying to stimulate both fire being extra effective vs boats on a "per point of damage" basis and the possibility of fires getting out of control and spreading throughout the boat. Not really sure how the "Hull Damage Equivalent" table is applied, or if you're supposed to keep track of total fire damage in addition to hull damage.
Ramming - I'm curious if this is elaborated later. B/X has you making an attack roll and doing a certain number of hull points in damage (quite a lot, potentially), while AD&D calls for a specific angle being required, rowing, etc. If you ram another boat, are they guaranteed to sink? Seems like there's a whole game here of boat vs boat combat and maneuverer.
Waterborne adventures final thoughts - I did a brief perusal of Gygax, Arneson and Carr's Napoleonic naval warfare game Don't Give Up The Ship, which has very thorough rules for ship combat. A great resource to steal from if you were going to feature naval combat in your game.
Part 3
ReplyDeleteSwimming - swimming in metal armor is impossible, swimming in textile armor is 5% chance to drown per hour, increase by 2% per every 5lb carried. Actually a pretty simple system. I'm curious how this extrapolates to a shorter time span like in dungeon water features and such - what's the chance of drowning per round? Left to the DM to extrapolate
Underwater breathing - I've seen the idea of "magical herbs that enable you to breathe underwater" crop up a number of times in fiction (Harry Potter comes to mind) - probably comes from somewhere in appendix N.
Underwater Movement - same movement speeds as in dungeons makes sense, but what about underwater dungeons? And during combat rounds?
Underwater Vision - sight limits to 50' in fresh water and 100' in salt is a pretty good basic benchmark. Infravision working less well underwater is a nice consideration, but I'd be inclined to just half the distance or something simple.
Underwater combat - only thrusting weapons working underwater makes sense, sucks if you're a Cleric and limited to blunt weapons though. Underwater crossbows! (Aka, spear guns). Nets! Really good points about keeping things dry (food, books, bows, etc). You really can't be going anywhere with a typical pack full of equipment. I've typically hand waved this kind of thing in my games, but have never been satisfied with it.
Underwater spell use - nice to see the world which don't work underwater listed clearly. Great resource. I think an underwater adventure could prove a nice challenge for groups that are very accustomed to using certain spells and weapons - if you rely on fireball and magical swords, underwater fighting will push that comfort zone.
Travel in the known planes of existence - phew! Wild stuff. The idea of importing characters to parallel universes and running them with other games (Boot Hill, Gamma World, etc) is pretty great. It's pretty wild that Gygax puts TWO multiverse systems (the Ethereal and Astral planes). Huge ideas here - really great stuff. Sparks the imagination, but also makes me say "Jesus that's a lot to ask the DM!"
Outdoor movement - 30 miles a day! These are some fit adventurers. We have some encumbrance classes - 25 lb max for "light", 60 lb max for "average", 90 lb max for "heavy". Pretty close to the B/X rates, but lacking the highest weight / slowest movement category at 1600 coin (160 lb), which is fine.
Movement mounted in miles/day - not sure what "light, medium and heavy" means in the context of mounts - perhaps this shows up elsewhere. Maybe the mounts each have their own encumbrance breakpoints.
Movement afloat, sailed in miles/day - the B/X sailing rates are a fair bit higher - not sure which are more realistic (if it matters). Neither system is particularly concerned about wind direction.
Part 4
ReplyDeleteInfravision & Ultravision - ohhhhhhhh boy! A perennially interesting topic. I forsee lots of semi-scientific explanation that doesn't really quite all fit together. Let's find out.
Infravision - two really excellent images here - monsters leaving hot or cold footprints is straight out of Predator, though predating it by 8 years. Also monsters with "infravisual capability of unusual nature" having glowing red eyes to creatures with infravision is great.
Infravision continued - the problem with the infra-red spectrum "scientific" approach to seeing in the dark, and the limits to player characters that come with it, is that it raises a bunch of questions about the monsters. How do they navigate underground dungeons if the walls, floors, ceilings and doors are the same temperature and thus looks the same? Do all these orcs have torches? Surely not! I tend to like the more "mythological" take from OD&D that monsters can see in the dark because they're monsters, while you, a surface dweller, cannot. I suppose you're free to use the limitations here for PCs specifically, which is probably the best approach.
Ultravision - perhaps I should have read the PHB first, because I have no idea what this ability is doing in the game. I suppose it's "see in the dark" but only outside? Feels like someone said "well if there's vision based on infra-red there should be vision based on ultra-violet, obviously!" and then they added it.
Invisibility - some decent tips here. The old school invisibility spell having an infinite duration always seems pretty abusable. Can you make the party invisible 1 casting per day, then group up and waltz through the dungeon? Gygax suggests that common sense and DM fiat would say no. Attacking at -4 penalty for unseen targets is much more lenient than B/X, which doesn't say, but it does say that blind targets are unable to attack, which has always struck me as too much. As far as I know that's the closest rule to extrapolate from for attacking invisible targets in B/X, though I don't love it.
Detection of invisibility - strange table. Only 7 HD creatures and above having the ability to detect invisible is very strict. My inclination in B/X is to use the 1-in-6 Listen at Doors skill as a chance to detect invisible which is much more lenient, though it doesn't account for HD and probably is *too* lenient on Thieves if you let them use Hear Noise.
Detection of Evil and/or Good - some decent notes here. Nothing mind blowing.
Listening at Doors - "make certain that you explain to players that all headgear must be removed in order to listen…" ha! A classic Gygax consideration. Maximum number of listeners is 3 - hey that matches my B/X house rule! I'm surprised that Gygax didn't limit the number of attempts to 1 per character per door. I've never loved that listening at doors has no real time cost, but I suppose it's fine.
"Straight out of Predator, though predating it by 8 years". I think I've read one inspiration here is Westworld.
Delete"Infravision continued" - agreed. This is a nerf to players and not something that makes sense for NPCs.
"Invisibility" - I like -4 if you can detect your foe by sound. smell, etc., but it does seem too lenient.
"Detection of invisibility" - agreed. Should have little to do with HD and Intelligence. I'm guessing the motive is "dragons" somehow, but Smaug did "see" Bilbo... not sure. Didn't like this table.
Listening at Doors - I think it should demand time, and that's it. You can try indefinitely, but you might run into random encounters etc.. The idea that others must wait in silence is good too.
Invisibility - agreed, -4 to hit makes sense if you can detect your foe somehow.
DeleteDetection - I don't mind high HD monsters having some ability to detect invisible with some reliability up at the top end of the HD ladder, but the chances at low end being 0 doesn't sit super well. Something along the lines of "5% chance + 5% chance per HD"would suit my taste more
Listening taking time - that was my first instinct as well and for a while I ruled it as listening at doors taking 1 turn, but that feels a little too long narratively to me and tracking parts of turns is not something I'm interested in.
Yeah, I feel that. I'm not really into tracking time myself. On the other hand, "you cannot have a meaningful campaign" etc.
DeleteThe detection of invisible table and the section on limits to invisibility seem slightly contradictory. On one hand Gary says,
ReplyDelete"normal sounds issue from the invisible creature, just as normal odors do. Monsters might well be able to hear, smell or see the invisible creature."
To me this implies all (or most) monsters but the Detection of Invisibility Table preface seems to spell it out:
" Finally, we have the consideration of the ability to detect invisible creatures even though they are not actually seen. This is explainable as the observer's ability to note a minor disturbance in the air - a shimmering or haze - or by *kean hearing, and/or keen sense of smell.*
I'm surprised - it seems that *any* chance is limited to 7HD or above.