Despite being inspired mostly by B/X, I prefer using the same XP for all classes in my games. This is how Dark Fantasy Basic works, for example.
I heard some arguments to the contrary - that different XP tracks are important. I think there's some merit to this idea, but for now I prefer doing things my way.
In theory, I wanted a 10th-level Fighter (or "F10") to be roughly as powerful as a 10th-level Magic-User (M10). Which is hard to do.
In B/X, you might be tempted to think the idea is that a F10 is close in power to a MU9, since the XP requirements are somewhat similar.
I think this is doubtful, at best.
But if that was true... could we still have B/X with same XP for all classes?
I have read many attempts to " reverse engineer" B/X classes. I do not think they were as engineered as one might think, but I like playing with that idea.
Today, I'll be referencing BX Options: Class Builder, which looks very cool (I've only read the first few pages).
The idea is that you can create a stronger Fighter or Thief by requiring more XP. So, giving the thief better saving throws (as a fighter) would "cost" 300 XP. Could we make everyone share the same XP to get to level 2, for, example? Let's try.
Fighter: Leave it at 2,000 XP for now. Let's try to make other classes the same.
Magic-user: We'd have to bring the MU down to reach the fighter. There is no easy way to do that without giving him even more restrictions.
The class builder suggests one could get extra spells for 100 to 200 XP. Maybe we could do the opposite, giving the MU fewer spells - at most one per level.
Notice the MU starts getting more than one spell per level only by level 7. If we change that, the starting MU is not any weaker (good!) but at level 10 he is significantly less powerful (also good), especially because he can never get three fireballs.
This gives the game a somewhat more S&S/low-magic vibe, which I like.
Let's say:
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Spells |
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MU level |
1 |
2 |
3 |
4 |
5 |
6 |
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1 |
1 |
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2 |
2 |
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3 |
2 |
1 |
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4 |
2 |
2 |
1 |
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5 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
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6 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
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7 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
1 |
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8 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
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9 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
1 |
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10 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
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11 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
1 |
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12 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
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13 |
3 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
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14 |
3 |
3 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
Cleric: I do not think the cleric deserves any further boost. They are very powerful, in my experience. I'd just require 2000 XP like the fighter. The spells and turn undead makes up for the difference. Please let me know in the comments if you disagree.
Thief: this is my main concern because it is a class that I find very weak, despite the low XP requirements (1,200 XP to level 2). The thief deserves 1d6 HP IMO, plus better saving throws (let's say the sneaky thief is as elusive as the strong fighter). This brings him to 1,700 XP.
There is not much more to give a thief. Infravision or a couple of extra skills could work to get him to 2,000 XP, or maybe give him fighting capabilities similar to the fighter - when you compare the B/X thief with similar XP as a fighter, the attack bonus is not that different.
I wont include elves, halflings and dwarves because I don't use race-as-class.
Is this worth the effort? I'm not sure. Tweaking classes like that assumes there is some balance to begin with, which might not be the case.
As I've mentioned in my last post, I'd prefer starting with very simple classes and then adding some feats as you go.
Spell-less classes would get more feat than spellcasters, to improve their versatility, since they don't get to choose spells.
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I use the same XP progression for all 3 classes (mage, warrior and hobbit). That said, I've reworked the whole mage and hobbit classes so they are not comparable.
ReplyDeleteIf I can give you advice, do not pay much attention to balance. Balance is illusory; but careful with doing things that are "strictly better" than others.
Using your templates, I'd probably give the thief 1d6 hp and higher starting thief skills; those are arguably needful even with the default XP requirements.
Mage, warrior, hobbit? That is different!
DeleteI see what you're saying about balance - it is a bit "apples to oranges".
Higher starting thief skills would definitely be a good idea!
The obvious missing niche for thief is missile combat - they should be able to handle all kinds of missile weapon well and use them to set up effective ambushes.
ReplyDeleteMake the classes roughly equal in capacity and there is no need for XP restrictions that (like level limits) only show up after a delay and only create confusing division among the capabilities of the party members.
Missile combat is a cool ability to give thieves, although I think an archer is mostly a fighter.
DeleteI definitely like the idea of making the classes roughly equal in capacity!