I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.

- William Blake

Saturday, August 31, 2019

Pathfinder 2 and me - not quite a review

So, it seems Pathfinder 2 is out...

Pathfinder has lots of interesting modules, cool art, and incredible support. It is not something I would usually play, but there are good reasons to take a look at this - specially if you liked my last post. Mainly, because there is a SRD and you can check this stuff online without spending $60 (!!!) on a 640-page (!!!!) rulebook.

(TBH, I think the investment in time is worse than the money spent... But that is the subject for another day).

At a first glance, PF 2 looks a lot like PF 1: endless rules, heavy character customization, lots of addition (say, you could get a +23 bonus to do something if you're level 16 - no "bounded accuracy" here!), many feats, +1 bonuses are still a thing, etc. These are things I do not like.

However, I noticed that they adopted some of my favorite solutions (some I used for my own Dark Fantasy Basic):

- Criticals and fumbles based on DC (or AC!) plus or minus 10...
- ...But there are usually no fumbles when you attack with your sword (also, the irritating rule of "confirming crits" I mentioned in this post is gone).
- It uses diminishing returns for abilities over 18!
- Everybody adds their level to saving throws.

Somethings they seem to have adopted from 5e, which is good if you like both PF and 5e: the way backgrounds and "proficiency" works, more powerful feats, a similar action economy, etc.

There is also stuff I dislike:

- Everybody adds their level to EVERYTHING, so you basically got your 15th level wizard with Strength 10 and  +17 to athletics...*
- The number of options you get at first level is, well, insanely big (which, I admit, might be a plus for some).
- Needless complication is still a thing, small bonuses, etc.
- The basic "ancestries" are Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Human... Nothing wrong with the horizontally challenged, but should 80% of the non-humans be short folks, with half of them having a strength penalty?

[*BUT only if he's trained in athletics, otherwise it's +0. This creates a different problem. If the fighter has +21 athletics and the wizard +0, they simply cannot face the same challenges, like climbing the same mountain. I don't mind it - it is more "realistic" this way - but I see why some would prefer 5e's bounded accuracy, and I prefer a solution that is between these two extremes]

And there are things which just seem useless or redundant, like having an "elven" blade with the "elf" trait, trying to make all abilities even, other tables with superfluous entries (see "Check Penalty", "Speed Penalty" and "Bulk", below), etc.

Medium ArmorPriceAC BonusDex CapCheck PenaltySpeed PenaltyStrengthBulkGroupArmor Traits
Hide2 gp+3+2–2–5 ft.142Leather
Scale mail4 gp+3+2–2–5 ft.142Composite
Chain mail6 gp+4+1–2–5 ft.162ChainFlexible, noisy
Breastplate8 gp+4+1–2–5 ft.162Plate

There are some things that seem to be actual improvements to D&D as a whole. I like "ancestries" better than "races", and the whole ancestry feats, lineages, etc., is both sensible and cool. Legendary skills make "mundane" classes a lot cooler (a thief could steal the armor you're wearing, or something of the sort - these come only at very high levels).

Other things I would call "good D&D practices". Monster stats are a lot shorter and more interesting than PF 1 (I love how big weapons are more useful against some constructs, for example) . Encumbrance is simpler. Equipment is a lot cooler. Initiative is interesting. These things could be easily adapted to any version of &D - including 5e!

Overall, the game is a lot closer to my tastes than PF 1, but still too complex for me. I mean, take a look at the character sheet:

So... Nope.

In short, get this game if:

- You're into heavy character customization.
- You like many bonuses and dislike "bounded accuracy".
- Like lots of details (in skills, weapons, etc.).
- Prefer to have specific rules over vague rulings.
- You're looking for truly "epic" heroes.
- Appreciate having a very complete SRD online.
- Like Pathfinder 1 and would like to see a modernized and improved (IMO) version.

Do not get this game if you prefer simple systems, "realistic" heroes, short books, small numbers, rulings, etc.


But anyway...

Why I'm talking about this game, if it is not for me?

Well, Pathfinder 2 has pretty detailed D&D combat, including weapons and armor!

Take a look.

The weapon list looks a lot more detailed (and interesting) than 5e, and some of the weapon traits could be used in 5e directly. For example:

Propulsive: You add half your Strength modifier (if Positive) to damage rolls with a propulsive ranged weapon. If you have a negative Strength modifier, you add your full Strength modifier instead.
Sweep: This weapon makes wide sweeping or spinning attacks, making it easier to attack multiple enemies. When you attack with this weapon, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus to your attack roll if you already attempted to attack a different target this turn using this weapon.
Versatile: A versatile weapon can be used to deal a different type of damage than that listed in the Damage entry. This trait indicates the alternate damage type. For instance, a piercing weapon that is versatile S can be used to deal piercing or slashing damage. You choose the damage type each time you make an attack.

Others could be easily adapted, like I mentioned.

It inspired me to, once again, go back to 5e combat and see where it could be improved.

If you're into that sort of thing, it might inspire you too.

Good luck!

Wednesday, August 14, 2019

Want detailed weapons and armor? Try Mythras

You know this blog is mostly about D&D stuff. Nowadays, I play only D&D or my own games (like Dark Fantasy Basic), but these are also inspired by D&D.

But I have been playing RPGs for a long time... Pendragon, GURPS, CoC, Savage Worlds, DC Heroes, Rolemaster... and I still enjoying reading this stuff from time to time.

My latest read was Mythras [affiliate link*]. Which is basically Runequest 6 after the publisher lost the rights to Runequest.

Runequest is a classic, but I have never played 6th edition myself (not sure if I played any of it at all, TBH). It is all very similar to Chaosium stuff: about seven attributes/abilities and d100 skills, basically. 

Mythras is a detailed game, with lots of spells (like D&D) and LOTS of tools to give your character a background: tribe, family, civilization, relationships, passions, etc. It is a perfect game if you're trying to build an intricate backstory that really matters, with mechanical consequences.

I'm not into elaborate backgrounds myself at the moment, but since I write so much about weapons and armor in this blog, I thought I'd share this: the combat system in Mythras looks awesome.

Combat in Mythras is detailed and granular like everything else, but I actually LIKE some detail in combat... And Mythras deals with complexity exactly the way I like, which means: combat is pretty simple most of the time, but when you get a "critical hit" each weapon brings unique tools to the game, making the differences really shine.

There are many other interesting details in combat... opposed rolls where you actually have a reason to use one of your actions to defend, for example. Different HP for each part of the body. Or a list with seven or eight shields instead of a single one.

By the way, many characters can take three actions per "turn"... Which is somewhat similar to D&D 5e or Pathfinder 2.

It is still too complex for my tastes but... For a combat oriented-oriented game, I think Mythras would be a great choice.

To be honest, I'm somewhat tempted to run this, or at least some simpler version.

A review?

Well, this isn't a review "per se", but my impressions of Mythras are basically that.

If you want:

* Organic, detailed, realistic characters, with elaborate backgrounds;
* Complex combat, with LOTS of options.
* Many magic systems.
* Plenty of interesting rules for emotions and social interaction.
* D100 skills.

Mythras might be the game for you.

What Mythras lacks is an extensive or interesting bestiary; fantasy races and magic items; superhuman heroes; and shortcuts to make combat an character creation easier. It also has no setting; it is a "generic" fantasy game, but a "bronze age" setting is somewhat implied.

Maybe Classic Fantasy [affiliate link*] has some of that, but since it requires Mythras to play I'm betting it doesn't get any simpler.

In any case, I enjoyed reading Mythras, even if I don't play it. You will probably see me borrowing some ideas for my D&D games soon...

 * Affiliate links - by using this, you're helping to support this blog!


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Friday, August 02, 2019

The WEIGHT of GOLD - is OD&D right again?

How much does a gold coin weight?

The answer is not as simple as you think. Here is my favorite post on the subject. Delta's thinking and research are awesome, and have influenced many old school RPGs, including mine. Ii convinced me of using silver coins instead of gold... and also use a reasonable weight to coins, like D&D did from 2e on - now there are 50 coins for every pound, instead of the original 10 coins. (BTW, I use a 1 gp = 10 sp = 100 cp, for simplicity).

He makes a great point. Here is one interesting bit:

Some of the lessons here, I think, are these: You don't want to "blow your wad" with enormous summer-action-movie-size treasures right at 1st level. A fat purse with a few dozen coins should be worth a thief's time to knife someone over. A wizard should be able to carry enough money in the folds of his robe to buy a night's stay at an inn, hire a lantern-bearer, or procure some interesting ephemera. If you want to jump into "heroic" adventure from the get-go, then it should match the rest of the D&D mechanics in that 3rd or 4th level is where you would start.

This is not only practical but also historically realistic.

However, there are other things to consider.

I've been thinking about item cards lately; I've even bought some. I want to make these things tangible to my players; not just things they can fill in a form. Maybe in this regard, I want my games to LOOK like games instead of accounting exercises. I even thought of buying some fake gold coins... but then it would starting looking like cosplay.

Now, there is something about those weighty, "low value! gold coins that makes them more... tangible.

In Moldvay basic, for example, 400 coins is the most you can carry before being affected (that is, if you're carrying nothing else... like weapons, armor or rations). It's the price of 40 swords (a normal sword weights as much as 60 coins). These coins are BIG!

Fifth edition is different: you can carry 150 pounds before being encumbered... that is, 7500 coins in 5e. You could buy 500 longswords (15 gp) with that!

In Moldvay (etc.), however, carrying a fortune hinders your movement. It is not always worth it. Getting greedy will kill you. Find a big hoard of coins, and you might be forced to return another day for the rest of the money, or risk being unable to run while being chased by stronger enemies!

In short, carrying coins becomes a meaningful decision, not an exercise in accounting. This might be one of the reasons why keeping track of money is unpopular nowadays. Feels like nitpicking.

There is also the mythical aspect of dragons sitting in huge piles of gold... There is no way any economy can be saved from total destruction if the adventures find one of these! If my memories of "1001 nights" are correct, piles of gold were used to buy castles... not entire continents!

See this excerpt, for example (source):

We are the better way to a billion coins being sequestered in a dragon’s hoard, which is more than 5,400 imperial tons of precious metal, including over 1,000 tons of gold. For reference, GFMS (the foremost consultancy and research company for the global precious metals market) estimates that the total amount of gold that humanity had extracted up until 1492 CE was about 12,780 tonnes (12,580 imperial tons). In other words, the dragon would have laid claim to a significant portion of global gold reserves on Earth, and probably would in your world, as well.

Of course, you could go the other way and make gold valuable to add some drama to that bag of gold. Each single gold piece could be impressive in itself - throwing gold around is for kings, not adventurers. This is the best way to use the "silver standard" proposed by Delta, IMO: gold is valuable, but not easy to find. There is absolutely no guarantee the players will find anyone with enough gold in the next town to buy 900 silver from them! Better find a bank or start digging a hole to protect your money...

Gold becomes more mythical than dragons, and dragons lay in piles of cooper and silver, etc.

Conversely, if you use gold instead of silver, finding some electrum piece could be a novel experience for the characters...The 5e SRD says that:

In addition, unusual coins made of other precious metals sometimes appear in treasure hoards. The electrum piece (ep) and the platinum piece (pp) originate from fallen empires and lost kingdoms, and they sometimes arouse suspicion and skepticism when used in transactions. An electrum piece is worth five silver pieces, and a platinum piece is worth ten gold pieces.

As for using tokens... I obviously don't want to play around with thousands of fake coins in my table. 50 coins representing one encumbrance slot feels just right for me. If all players use the same pool, I could use less than 100 coin tokes and a few treasure cards to represent all their money, including gold, silver, cooper and platinum (I fail to see the usefulness of electrum...). Ha, I could even buy some chocolate coins to allow players to eat while they spend...

Anyway, both systems have their merits and the choice is not the easiest one.

However, I can't help but feel that making OD&D better is a lot harder than it looks. There are just so many things that seem wrong, but have excellent reasons to be that way once you consider all the implications.

Further reading: